Link to the related website that has useful info: the Age of Nelson.

This forum is devoted to the Royal Navy during the Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars (1793 - 1815).
And why not the other navies of the period?
To avoid spam, you must register to be able to post - it's free.

FAQ         Register         Profile         Search         Log in to check your private messages         Log in
Rum, Sodomy and the Lash
Post new topic   Reply to topic    www.ageofnelson.org Forum Index -> Age of Nelson
 
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
PMarione
Site Admin


Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 883

Post Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:44 pm    Post subject: Rum, Sodomy and the Lash Reply with quote

I just finished Boys at Sea by B. R. Burg, Palgrave Macmillan, 2007, ISBN 978-0-230-52228-2

Social history of the RN occupy a rather small shelf of my library and I believe that I have 99% of the books on the subject.

This little book (241 p) is a scarse jewell: if the question of women on board is well documented now from some recent books, this is the only book treating of homosexuality in Nelson's Navy as the subtitle shows Sodomy, Indecency, and Courts Martial in Nelson's Navy.

Prof Burg has used the only source of info available on the subject: the CM transcripts from 1700 to 1830.
Surprisingly there were only 2 or 3 dozens of CM dealing with such offenses in more than 100 years. Most of them looks like rapes more than concensual sex.

Sodomy was a capital offence in the RN well into the 19th c. The 29th articlle of war said: If any person in the fleet shall commit the unatural and detestable sin of buggery and sodomy with man or beast, he shall be punished with death by the sentence of a court martial.
No place here for any leniency. By chance sodomy had a very precise definition: there was to have been "penetration" and "emission". All other homoerotic acts depended of the 2nd article and were classified as "indecency" ending in some hundreds lashes, the eviction from the RN and often a period in prison.

Most of the CM involved commissioned, warrant and petty officers with boys (there were about 10% of boys between 10 and 18 on board) and all these cases issued from complaints from the victim who seems to have escaped punition. The officers of the CM were very careful to deal with the testimony of such young victims who most of the time couldn't read or write and didn't understand the meaning of a oath.

There was only 1 case of "bestiality" and here the goat was very harshly treated being quartered and thrown overboard whilst the culprit escaped being apparently an idiot.

So this book is a "must have" for anybody interested in the social history of the RN even if in the end it doesn't throw much light on the subject because due to the (only available) sources are very specific: the CM which were not an every day occurrence.
The final question is "were the CM so scarse because homosexuality was very scarce on board (most of the cases were pederasty more than homosexuality) or was a CM only convened when the facts were too public to be dealt with "onboard" punishment?

The RN and more generally the seafaring society was very "manly" but is there a reason to think that the proportion of homosexuals was different from the general population? This rise the unsolved question of "nature versus culture".

The only critic to the book that I can find is that I would have liked to find the (very lenghty) notes at the end of the page or of the chapter rather than at the end of the book as you have to go back and forth.

@+ P

PS I'll post an extract involving HN when I find some time to OCR the page. Don't hold your breath! He had just to deal with a case.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
chasbaz



Joined: 02 May 2007
Posts: 38
Location: Athabasca, Alberta, Canada

Post Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:19 pm    Post subject: Rum, Bum and Concertina Reply with quote

Hi Patrick,

Above was the more modern nautical version of "wine, women and song", according to Grorge Melly..... Wink

N.A.M Rodger covers the subject in his 'Wooden World' as I am sure you know. Despite human nature being what it is etc., his conclusion is that homosexual acts were extremely rare. Rodger was covering the period before the Napoleonic wars, of course. Although the penalties were severe, it is hard to believe that these acts did not take place.

Regards,
Charles
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
PMarione
Site Admin


Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 883

Post Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's very difficult to know, probably impossible as no records exist.

All I can say is that the middle was very homophobic and that there was no privacy at least for the crew. So besides imagining some general orgy it was very difficult to find some private place to perform except for the officers.

I imagine that the poor homosexual had to wait to be discharged (no pun intented) or to be permitted to go on shore.

It certainly was not common contrary to what Churchill's said. It was not the case for rhum and the lash.

@+ P
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
alexlitandem



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 129

Post Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What barbaric times they lived in.

Unlike today.


Confused
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Peter



Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 105
Location: Gosport, Hampshire

Post Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From memory, wasn't the 1st Lt of HMS Hazard, shot for this offence. I think the witness was a cabin boy who turned out to be a girl..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PMarione
Site Admin


Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 883

Post Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex,

From a report of 1969 more than 40% of the ratings were gay.
I suppose long sea time seems shorter with a boyfriend (or girlfriend) on board.

Peter,

His name was William Berry and he was hanged at the yardarm on 19 October 1807. A woman disguised as a boy was the main witness at the CM.
Poor Admiral Byng was the only people ever shot by sentence of a CM, hanging applied to all the other cases.

@+P
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    www.ageofnelson.org Forum Index -> Age of Nelson All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
FAQ   Search    Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in 

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Nun