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Naval Ship wrecked off Plymouth, England 1761
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harriott



Joined: 29 Aug 2007
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Post Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:31 am    Post subject: Naval Ship wrecked off Plymouth, England 1761 Reply with quote

I am reading a book by John Harriott (1745-1817) who, in his biography spends many chapters discussing his life in the Royal Navy, entering as a Midshipman "early 1759" during the seven years war.

For reasons known only to Harriott, from time to time, he refrained from naming people he wrote about. Here is my issue:

The first ship he was on, was under the command of "Captain R", onboard a "ship-of-war" bound for New York. He named the Lieutenant on the ship as Lindsay/Lindsey. As the convoy left the port, there was a storm, which caused the ship he was on to be disabled and "was laid up at Portsmouth for many months". Harriott appears to have arrived at or near Louisburg, after the French surrender.

After leaving Newfoundland, they 'fell in' with Admiral Boscawen and he graphically describes the Battle of Lagos in August 1759. After the battle the ship he was on held a roving commission around the Mediterranean for several years. He describes the plague and the ripple effect from the Earthquake in Lisbon (?31/3/1761) when the ship was heading back to England. According to Harriott as the ship came through the Channel, there were problems and the ship, was wrecked near Plymouth. He states it was the middle of March, the captain and crew survive on a Mewstone Rock near the "Yam River" (this appears to be Yealm River).

After the shipwreck, he re-enlists in the Navy appointed to a frigate in Admiral Pocock's fleet heading for Havana, but then is diverted to provide aid to Colville's fleet and is transferred to the Colville's flag ship Northumberland. This time frame is July/August 1762.

Based on Harriott's time frame, I have tried to establish the name of the ship and the name of the captain, but to date have been unsuccessful. I live in Australia and cannot physically access documents in the UK.

Any comments, guidance, to help me find the name of the captain and the ship he was on, would be grateful appreciated.

Cheers,

Harriott
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PMarione
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Post Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a tough one!

From what you say it don't seems to be a ship-of the-line or a frigate.
Hepper's "British Warship Losses in the Age of Sail" has no ship wrecked that fits your description for 1760-1763.

The smaller ships present at the Battle of Lagos were (according to Schomberg's Naval Chronology):
20-gun:
    Lyme, Cpt J. Baker
    Gibraltar, Cpt M. M'Cleverty
    Glasgow, Cpt An. Wilkinson
    Sheerness, Cpt John Clerk
    Tartar's Prize, T. Baillie (sunk in the Mediterranean in 1760)

16-gun sloops:
    Favourite, Cpt Tim. Edwards
    Gramont, Cpt Ph. Affleck

8-gun fireships
    Aetna, Cpt Richard Bickerton
    Salamander, Cpt Hon. J. Lewis Gower


No Captain "P" and only the Tatar's Prize lost at some time.

I pass to other listers.

The great earthquake of Lisbon was on 1st Nov 1755?

The frigate sent to reinforce Colville was the Minerva (32) Cpt Joseph Peyton.

@+ P Marione
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harriott



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Post Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your input. Tough is an understatement! Crying or Very sad
I have researched the earthquake in Lisbon and it is well documented to have occurred in the month of March 1761.
What puzzles me is the 'shipwreck'. I have found numerous sites about shipwrecks, but cannot pinpoint this shipwreck in 1761. The nearest wreck for the Plymouth/Portsmouth area is the Dorsestshire, which came to grief at Horse Sand (or Horse tails or Horse Sands) in the summer of 1761. This wreck prompted Admiral Holborne to proclaim strong guidelines for entering the Channel. I would like to think Harriott was onboard the Dorsestshire, except the captain of that ship was Captain Denis and not the elusive Captain "R". I am at a loss.

How do I find the ship?

Cheers,
Harriott
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PMarione
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Post Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find no trace of a wreck of a RN ship fitting the description. The book I quoted is very complete.

Are you sure that it was a RN ship and not some merchant ship or an hired transport: don't seem that it took part in any fight?

Are you sure that his "memoirs" are reliable? Did you corroborate other facts?

Here is what the DNB (old edition) gives
Quote:
"His father, who had been in the royal navy and the merchant service, settled there a couple of years previously. His grandfather had been the last local representative of a family which had for centuries been small landowners in Northamptonshire, where they followed the calling of tanners.
After a little country schooling young Harriott was put into the navy; served in the West Indies and the Levant, and was shipwrecked on the Mewstone rock on the passage home.
Harriott afterwards served under Admiral Pocock at the taking of Havana in 1762, and the recapture of Newfoundland. After the peace he entered the merchant service, went up the Baltic, and, as mate, made many voyages in the American and West Indian trade"

based on his autobiography I think.

The new edition only says:
Quote:
"He joined the Royal Navy, aged thirteen, as a midshipman at the height of the Seven Years' War. The war ended too quickly for him: he had insufficient active service to qualify for a commission and without influential patrons could not expect to remedy the deficiency in peacetime. A lack of connections also blighted his subsequent merchant navy career."


@+P
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harriott



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Post Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks again for replying. I have both the old and new bio from the DNB regarding John Harriott. I have endeavoured to read extensively to corroborate his memoirs (including Robert Beatson's "Naval & Military Memoirs of Great Britain, from 1712-1783). I have no idea how reliable is memoirs are, and can only hope his dates are accurate enough for me to continue to verify his writings. He does not indicate the year the shipwreck happened except in the month of March. By July 1762, Pocock had taken Havana and if the Lisbon earthquake occurred 31st March 1761, then the shipwreck may have been March 1762.

If anyone reading this thread was interested in reading Harriott's book, which is available on the net, they may be able to shed some light on the type of ship he was on prior to its sinking. Harrriott's book, "Struggles Through Life: Exemplified in the Various Travels and Adventures in Europe, Asia." (1815) is available on Google Books.

http://books.google.com/books?id=g58BAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA1&dq=john+harriott

In Chapter 2, he states "when I was little more than thirteen, sailed as a midshipman on-board a ship of war, bound with a convoy of merchant-vessels for New-York, in the company of another frigate, bound to the West Indies..." he also states that he had been recommended to Captain R.... by a relation, which has led me to wonder if he was on a non-navy ship. Harriott had an uncle, John Staples who was a Magistrate in the Shadwell area and his livelihood was in the merchant business. He ran his businesses from Lloyds Coffee House and was involved in East India Company. Therefore, (I think) it is likely that extra ships were sent to provide provisions etc; for the Navy. I have no idea how the Navy worked in this time frame, but as one reads the book, one gets a sense he must have been in the Navy or the ship he was assigned to had been rented to the Navy for a period of time? In Chapter X11, he discusses the earthquake off Lisbon, in 1761 and in Chapter X111 the shipwreck.

Many thanks
Harriott

P.S. Whilst I appreciate my thread is not technically dealing with the Age of Nelson, for what it's worth, a niece of John Harriott, Clara-Amelia Harriott married Robert Parry Nesbit. Nesbit's uncle, Josiah Nisbet was the 1st husband of Nelson's wife, Frances Herbert Woolward. Wink
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PMarione
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Post Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have quickly gone trough the book.

The ship seems to have been a frigate: he says somewhere "another frigate".

His description of the following of the battle of Lagos doesn't fit with Beatson.

I checked for Lt Lindsay.
Only 2 candidates:
Lt John Lindesay (1757, d 1763)
Capt. George Lindsay (1759, 1781, 1797, d 1798)

Maybe you can track their career from the TNA website?

@+P
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harriott



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Post Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks again for the feedback. I am not sure the TNA site has what I am looking for as online navy records are 1873-1923. I did find (on the TNA site) that John Lindseay left a will dated 1763 and was a 'Mate of His Majesty's ship Medway".

In your box of goodies, do you have any information on a naval officer with the surname Rose? It was suggested to me this was the name of the captain of the ship Harriott served on, however, I cannot find any references to any naval officer with the surname Rose for this time frame.

Cheers,
Harriott
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PMarione
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Post Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No "Rose" that can fit in his jacket that I can find.

@+P
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harriott



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Post Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for looking for "Captain Rose". The feedback you have provided has been excellent & I really appreciate the efforts. The more I think about John Harriott's stint in the navy, from his memoirs, he didn't actually state in chapter 2 he joined the navy when he was thirteen. He makes several references (in chapter 2) about merchant vessels. Yet, both the old & new DNB bios about Harriott state he joined the navy!

I am now more inclined to think he sailed as a midshipman on a merchant vessel. Had the ship been a naval ship, which sank in Plymouth Sound, (1761/62) there would be some record and Beatson's excellent work does not account for this ship.

Thanks! Laughing

Cheers,
Harriott
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PMarione
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Post Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The old DNB simply took it from his autobiography and the new one is far more cautious!

So I agree with you: we would have found some trace of the shipwreck if it was a RN frigate.

His memoirs are ambiguous (probably voluntary so: it was far more romantic to be in the RN) and possibly it's the reason why he never names the Captain or the ship.

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ionia



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Post Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A cursory reading of this interesting narrative suggests a mixture of fact and fiction.

He supplies much circumstantial information about his first ship, a frigate taken from the French and a fast ship. There are several possible candidates but none were wrecked off Plymouth.

With respect to his ship joining Admiral Boscawen and her subsequent engagement, unfortunately there is no record of the taking of a French frigate by a British frigate during Boscawen’s pursuit of the French following the battle of Lagos.

The only reasonable certainty is that, during his second voyage, when at Halifax he moved from a frigate to the NORTHUMBERLAND 70, (broad pendant of Lord Colville) in which he presumably returned to England (the NORTHUMBERLAND arrived at Spithead 25th October, 1762).
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