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Midshipman: gentleman petty officer or warrant officer?
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Redfish



Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 59
Location: Arnhem

Post Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 6:43 am    Post subject: Midshipman: gentleman petty officer or warrant officer? Reply with quote

Hi,

I always presumed that a midshipman was a petty officer, since he was a non-commissioned officer and I never saw him mentioned in any book I have read so far as a warrant officer. To my surprise, I read in the Naval Chronicles (NC) nr. 33, p. 68 the following:
Quote:
scale of pensions NC33, p. 66 e.v.; p 68:
VII. Of Pensions to Petty and Non-Commissioned Officers.
That the petty and non-commissioned officers (rope maker, ship's corporal,
captain of tops, captain of after-guard, captain of rnasts, corporal
of marines) shall receive, in addition to the rates of pension to which
their service, as seamen, landmen, or marines, would entitle them, one
farthing per diem for each year of their service as such petty or noncommissioned
officer.
That the petty and non-commissioned officers (clerk, schoolmaster,
armourer, master at arms, carpenter's-mate, caulker, quarter-master,
boatswain's-mate, sail-maker, gunner's-mate, yeoman of powder-room,
ditto of sheets, coxswain, quarter-master's-mate, captain of forecastle,
Serjeant of marines) shall be entitled to one halfpenny per diem, in addition
to the rate of pension to which their services as seamen, landmen, or
marines, would entitle them.
VIII. Of Pensions to Warrant Officers.
If it shall at any time please the King in Council, to grant to any of the
warrant officers (boatswain, gunner, carpenter, purser, master, surgeon,
surgeon's assistant, masterVmate, midshipman), on account of wounds or
hurts received in his Majesty's service, a pension on the ordinary estimate
of the navy, such officer or person shall not be entitled to any pension
from Greenwich Hospital.

YET in other parts of the NC I read the following:
NC33, 165
Quote:
Names of Petty Officers Wounded.
Tonnant Mr. Charles Ogle, midshipman, severely.

NC34, 67:
Quote:
To the first class of petty officers,
tiamely, the midshipmen, surgeons' assistants, secretaries' clerks, captains*
clerks, schoolmasters, masters at arms, captains' coxswains, gunners*
mates, yeomen of the powder-room, boatswains' mates, yeomen of the
sheets, carpenters' mates, quarter-masters' mates, ships' corporals, captains
of the forecastle, master sail-makers, master caulkers, master ropemakers,
armourers, Serjeants of marines and land forces, four and a half
shares each.

Does anyone know how do these two differences relate to each other? Was a midshipman a gentleman petty officer, or a warrant officer, or both?

Danni


Last edited by Redfish on Sun May 24, 2009 5:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PMarione
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Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 883

Post Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Commisions were issued by the King (in fact the Admiralty), warrants by the Navy Board.
Midshipmen and Master's Mates didn't get a warrant so technically they were "petty officers" like the mates etc, their nomination depending of the commander of the ship.

But in practice they had responsabilities that would have ranked them with warrant officers. In ships commanded by Lieutenants they performed like lieutenants on bigger ships: in charge of watches etc.
So maybe it's the reason why they are comprised with the warrant officers here?

I suppose that we have not the same edition of the NC: in mine vol 34 (1815), p 68 I have a proclamation by the Regent concerning the distribution of prize money (25 June 1815) and for prize money they clearly ranked with the "petty officers" class.

@+P
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Redfish



Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 59
Location: Arnhem

Post Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply. I was already wondering about the master's mates as well. Your reply confirmed my assumption.
I changed volume 34 in 33 above the first quote. Sorry for the miswrite.

Danni
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PMarione
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Post Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was two brands of Master's mates:
- would be masters
- young gentlemen who (most of the time) had passed their exam for lieutenant but this was not a mandatory rating for promotion: many lieutenants had never been master's mates.

They were certaily "petty officers".

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